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???
01/19/07 17:47
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#131122 - Where you sit determines what you see.
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Jan Waclawek said:
why?
The volume can make a difference, I believe; but then other factors may come in play I guess. We here have abundance of suppliers and only a few and relatively little electronics manufacturers, so the suppliers make their best not to loose even a small good client.

I won't say you should move your production to Europe right away, though...

Here, we have dozens of small and large manufacturers, yet have only three or four distributors.

Judging from what you tell me, I'd be very hesitant to recommend anyone move any production to Europe at all.

what?
So, if you definitively feel you do need an income inspection of parts, you shall consider some sort of testing for all parts, not only the '51. A defective resistor or capacitor or voltage regulator might IMHO cause smoke much more easier than a defective '51.

In the case of passives, I'd say it's important to check (1) that the reels actually are populated (I had one distributor send me unpopulated reels, i.e. where the tape was empty.) (2) that it contains approximately the correct quantity of components, and (3) that a sample of these parts are of the correct value and behave as expected. (I once received reels of resistors, marked 1 k-ohm, but containing 1 M-ohm.)

when?
If you want to do income inspection, I am afraid, you cannot avoid, so it's. On the other hand, this might open way to more effective testing methods than just running a test program, e.g. measuring ICCQ and/or ICCD, measuring I/O pin leakages, using various voltage/temperature conditions etc.

If such items ever came to be an issue it would warrant testing, but, it's the manufacturer's, and not the distributor's responsibility to ensure that his specifications are met. If a lot were to be delivered that failed to meet those spec's the lawyers would see to it that the mfg paid for their replacement and the refurbishment of the units in which they were installed.

With voltage regulators, (I once had a lot of 1K regulators come in, of which not one regulator was within specified Vout tolerance.) Technicians were available to test 'em because production was stopped until we found parts that worked.

how?
As Erik pointed out, this sort of stuff is definitively not cheap and gets more expensive as more different tests you want to perform. You need to work out your economics, though.

When you're using a small quantity, as I personally do in my very low-volume (almost always fewer than 12 units) business, I have to be assured that when I install a component, it functions properly. I'm not sure about the economics, though. It seems to me that if one is going to test 805x types, one has to ensure that they'll execute every instruction properly with every status bit in every possible state. They also have to execute every instruction properly on every possible content of 'A' and probably should operate properly on and in both internal and external memory. I/O testing is another issue, but certainly serial port loopback would be a reasonable test. For me, with my low volume, it's worth running a test that takes 4-5 minutes per MCU just to ensure that the parts in my parts bins function properly. For someone who uses only a few parts as I do, I imagine that's also true. For someone like Erik, who doesn't even bend over to pick up an MCU if it's dropped on the floor (probably wise, since the fine-pitch pins are probably bent), replacing 100 units of his product is probably not an issue, since he's shipping 10M/year. For him, if a unit "breaks" after a week or two, it's just a field service problem. For me, it's a tragedy, because even one failure per decade impacts my reputation. For me, it's like it is for NASA, since they, too, have "issues" with repairing something once it's deployed.

I am afraid that it is questionable, whether a simple - and relatively cheap - software test, run on the assembled board straight from the '51, will cover enough possible modes of failure to be worth doing at all - especially if you didn't have identified any "typical" mode of failure (as I mentioned I wrote such a test but I knew how the failing part (mis)behaved).

JW

I have to conclude from this thread that most 805x users just don't test the parts they receive, preferring, instead, to trust their suppliers. When I was learning to survive in the electronics design/development business, there were many distributors and nearly every component had "second-source" vendors. If TI's part didn't have a good local distributor, well, Signetics, Fairchild, Motorola, OKI, or NEC had one. Today, the only label available on "that" part is Philips. If you want to buy it, you have to go through their distributor, despite the fact that he's the one who, two decades ago, clearly attempted to cheat you by short-shipping your order and substituting resistors for the capacitors you ordered.

RE


List of 53 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
805x system self-test            01/01/70 00:00      
   erk            01/01/70 00:00      
      Well ... it seems to me ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not That            01/01/70 00:00      
            Clearly if the CPU is knackered            01/01/70 00:00      
               If you have a new lot of parts ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  depending on application...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     let me reframe the question ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        do you want to do the manufacturer's job?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           don't get me wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                           No, it's not his job ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  OF COURSE you do            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I don't know which disty's you do biz with ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        why? what? when? how?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Where you sit determines what you see.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              not at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                              RC reset            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 on testing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    re smoke - I just realize            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       5 Volts can produce smoke            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Why focus on smoke? Have you missed the point?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 nope ... not that simple            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    but it sounds exactly so...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I've tried a MAX1232 ... is that good enough?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          pushbutton reset            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             pushbutton            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I don't understand            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   NO!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      some options            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         That' not exactly the case ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            weird parts            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Too bad I didn\'t know about your interest earlier            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  your test subjects.... :-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     under other circumstances ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Jan, I think you missed the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                        OH            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Digikey and Mouser aren't "normal" disty's            01/01/70 00:00      
                              You have a very low opinion of distributors, is th            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Yes I do ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    nope            01/01/70 00:00      
               If you have a new lot of parts ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Your test program            01/01/70 00:00      
      waitaminute ... I didn't say I'd written it ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Well...            01/01/70 00:00      
            never used a '320.            01/01/70 00:00      
               So...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I\'ve built 805x stuff since the \'70\'s ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            aackk! it double-posted again            01/01/70 00:00      
   a real example            01/01/70 00:00      
      Testing 8051s            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'm just out to find stuff that's "broken"            01/01/70 00:00      
         how did you come to that figure?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Fault coverage figure            01/01/70 00:00      

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