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???
03/15/06 10:10
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#112215 - von Neumann RAM
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I might have confused you. There is no part/macro like von Neumann RAM, it is only the way how a RAM is used. The generic '51 memory model is of Harvard type, i.e. separate data and code space, and there is no way to write into the code memory (as it was traditionally a ROM). The von Neumann RAM means, that the RAM is mapped both in code and data memory space (the simplest way to achieve this is to AND together /PSEN and /RD of '51 into /OE of RAM).

Of course there are other options in a custom '51 core, e.g. accessing the code memory via extra SFRs (address+data); of course the code memory has to be writeable (RAM or FLASH). It seems that Keil's Monitor/FlashMon provides for this model as well, as there is also "code memory write" routine in the said asm file, but you have to find out the details for yourselves (I never tried to play with it).

But if your '51 chip does not have code RAM nor EPROM/FLASH, where do you store the code, in ROM? In that case, I see little space to debug...

One remark, sometimes chips are designed with extra pads (e.g. for the external memory interface), which are not connected in the production version, but provide for a special "bondout" version with all pads connected for debugging. Of course the bonds cost silicon area so it is a matter of compromise.

Jan Waclawek


List of 49 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
MONITOR for ASIC with 8051 IP core            01/01/70 00:00      
   replacing serial by xxx            01/01/70 00:00      
   JTAG?            01/01/70 00:00      
      should have come to me            01/01/70 00:00      
      JTAG money talks...            01/01/70 00:00      
         shome mishtake sureley            01/01/70 00:00      
         External UART            01/01/70 00:00      
      JTAG != debug port            01/01/70 00:00      
         Debug via JTAG            01/01/70 00:00      
            Does it make sense?            01/01/70 00:00      
            debugging            01/01/70 00:00      
               a readable version of the above            01/01/70 00:00      
                  coments            01/01/70 00:00      
                     won't we make it a separate thread?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        screw the wiki, who but you have been th            01/01/70 00:00      
   ASIC as in ASIC or FPGA?            01/01/70 00:00      
      How can I forward to other interface?            01/01/70 00:00      
         stick an IIC port on            01/01/70 00:00      
         what is not clear?            01/01/70 00:00      
            re: replacing setial by xxx            01/01/70 00:00      
               von Neumann RAM            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I get it...I'll have to play with FlashM            01/01/70 00:00      
                     IAP, ISP, von Neumann and others            01/01/70 00:00      
                        STOP, ! it is NOT            01/01/70 00:00      
                           NOR?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              oh well, wrong again            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 a multiple-post Re to Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    replies            01/01/70 00:00      
               von Neumann RAM            01/01/70 00:00      
         Sure about the volume?            01/01/70 00:00      
            There is something VERY strange here: T            01/01/70 00:00      
               indeed VERY strange            01/01/70 00:00      
                  could it be            01/01/70 00:00      
                     maybe            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Mea culpa ! WRONG EXAMPLE!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Then use DEDICATED ASICS            01/01/70 00:00      
                        One more detail just to get it right            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You haven't done the homework yet            01/01/70 00:00      
                     For that qty modify a standard chip            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Orders of Magnitude            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Re: Orders of Magnitude            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That may be a good per-piece cost            01/01/70 00:00      
   missing details            01/01/70 00:00      
      this is just a joke            01/01/70 00:00      
         ASIC size            01/01/70 00:00      
      Still price consideration problems            01/01/70 00:00      
   now paralell posted            01/01/70 00:00      
      End result and solution!            01/01/70 00:00      
         wrong sorry            01/01/70 00:00      

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