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???
03/09/06 13:04
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#111688 - comments
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Not only resulting from noisy supply currents, but also from ground return currents of clock signal running back from micro to oscillator modul!
It's better to use the internal Pierce oscillator of micro in combination with this obligatory quartz.

Wow, I didn't know that, I always thought an external oscillator is a superior solution in all respects...


the above from Kai is not necessarily totally correct. While the statement per se is correct, a correct layout of the board will eliminate the "ground return currents" and an external oscillator will not have any adverse effect. Since it is a rarity for me to have only one processor on a board, I use external oscillators extensively and, yes, you need to know what you are doing with clock signals.

Is there an explanation, why the external oscillator is more "dirty" than the internal one? Does it have bigger power consumption, or is that the HF ground return "common resistance" which makes it "dirty", or what?
see above.

Now to Mahmood: I absolutotally agree with the "one layer will not suffice" but looking at your pictures, it seems you have committed a one layer cardinal sin. I do not see the ground traces being any heavier than the signal traces. Now, this is not "try heavier ground traces before going multilayer", by no means, but would have reduced your problem, albeit, I guess, not significantly enough. In other one layer cases it might have.

Now, I would go one step beyond: go 4 layer. with 4 layers, you can do magic with separating analog and digital ground.

Erik


List of 117 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
AD9835 noise problem            01/01/70 00:00      
   noise            01/01/70 00:00      
   Recommendations            01/01/70 00:00      
      quick fix?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Maybe            01/01/70 00:00      
            Transmission lines            01/01/70 00:00      
               5MHz?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Spectrum analyser            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It's ground noise            01/01/70 00:00      
                        ground noise and groundhogs            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Harmonics as well            01/01/70 00:00      
         comments            01/01/70 00:00      
            Why separate the analog & digital gnds?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Splitting the ground plane            01/01/70 00:00      
               Evaluation board            01/01/70 00:00      
            thin ground?            01/01/70 00:00      
               that is why you use star            01/01/70 00:00      
               Ground wire in parallel            01/01/70 00:00      
                  and a twisted pair?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Would do!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        does not exist, Jan if you used twisted            01/01/70 00:00      
                           The clock signal?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              oh well            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Indeed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    is there a way...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Hardly            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       unfortunately not            01/01/70 00:00      
                           twisted pair            01/01/70 00:00      
                              is that not obvious            01/01/70 00:00      
            No ground traces, but patches            01/01/70 00:00      
               the bane of many            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Why 1 or 2 layers            01/01/70 00:00      
                     it's nice!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        No Secrets            01/01/70 00:00      
                           DALO 2M professional            01/01/70 00:00      
                              UV ink Problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Mixed method?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    No Need for DALO            01/01/70 00:00      
                     CE            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Single step mode            01/01/70 00:00      
                           If you want...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              mmm            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Dreaming            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    LAYOUT            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       100nF caps            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          100nF ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             ok            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Some checks            01/01/70 00:00      
            It's my daily job!            01/01/70 00:00      
         Unfortunately, no            01/01/70 00:00      
            simulate double-layer            01/01/70 00:00      
   Seperate Analog and Digital Supply            01/01/70 00:00      
      RLC-filters don't help?            01/01/70 00:00      
         separate            01/01/70 00:00      
            And...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Seperate Supplies            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Evaluation board            01/01/70 00:00      
                     No not that one...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Curly            01/01/70 00:00      
                           OT: Hair            01/01/70 00:00      
                              lets have pictures            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 No no...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 http://www.k6ese.com/Mar_Vista_Shack.htm            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    but it is relevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                              No wonder...            01/01/70 00:00      
       waveforms            01/01/70 00:00      
         Link to DDS page            01/01/70 00:00      
            Add the second stage...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Filter components            01/01/70 00:00      
            clock            01/01/70 00:00      
               What clock            01/01/70 00:00      
                  ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Sampling theorem            01/01/70 00:00      
                        But...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Can't find it now            01/01/70 00:00      
         Ground of probe?            01/01/70 00:00      
            even better            01/01/70 00:00      
               Good trick!            01/01/70 00:00      
            same point            01/01/70 00:00      
               Both            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I feel strong now!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Funny!            01/01/70 00:00      
               Depends...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Oh Dear            01/01/70 00:00      
                     NO analog outputs            01/01/70 00:00      
                        since there is no schematics presented            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Publishing failed            01/01/70 00:00      
                              then give a link to an ORCAD drawing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Schematics            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    corrections            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Big test            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Try This Schematic...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       one more problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I miss the second 300R resistor            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Terminating Resistor.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Answers            01/01/70 00:00      
                        University of Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Keep us informed...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              of course            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Update            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Eager to know            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Me too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Autoreload            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Current source output            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Electronic World Feb 06            01/01/70 00:00      
   Superb!            01/01/70 00:00      
      No surprise            01/01/70 00:00      
   AD9835 Cycles            01/01/70 00:00      
   Solid Ground Plane Update!!!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
      Very nice results!            01/01/70 00:00      
         Low frequency            01/01/70 00:00      
            SLIGHt correction            01/01/70 00:00      
            OPA27?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Cross talk on PCB tracks            01/01/70 00:00      
            Have a look at this plot            01/01/70 00:00      
            Interesting question            01/01/70 00:00      
               further interesting question            01/01/70 00:00      

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