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???
01/29/06 20:43
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#108659 - Maybe, as an intellectual exercise, but
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I'm not at all convinced it's beneficial to expend time and resources on grying to make an old 8-bit MCU work like a more evolved architecture. Perhaps, but with a little more effort put into the ALU and program counter, the thing might just generally speed up by another 10%. Branch prediction wouldn't increase the overall performance by that much would it?

I'll take a look at the T51 version you worked up and see where it might benefit. This may take some time, however. I find it interesting that you moved from the original author's optimized rate of 16 MHz to 80 MHz. That's where I'll probably spend a bit of time.

I've been looking at the 6502 architecture for a small-but-mighty MCU core for FPGA use. The reason is that, when the 6502 came out, it bought market share by costing about 25% of what competing CPU's cost. It turns out that was a simple silicon-by-the pound matter, however, since the chip was about 25% the size of the comparable MC6802.

One reason, of course, IMHO, is that the CPU is designed with transparent latches rather than clocked registers, which means three gates rather than six (or fourteen, if you believe XILINX' interpretation of what a D-flipflop is) and because they seem to have used the ALU to perform address arithmetic as well as data arithmetic. This allowed a very complex ALU to be used, thereby saving the gates needed for long synchronous counters. They also were said to have built the internal memory (registers) using dynamic cells, which saved a few transistors as well, but that's not an option we have in FPGA technology.

There's also the matter of the decimal arithmetic operations when the ALU is in decimal mode. I think one can easily implement that by maintaining a separate set of registers, the content of which is always kept decimal adjusted, thereby making it quick enough to allow the arithmetic to take place as fast in decimal mode as in binary.

I figure that if this core bought such a market share with its small size, it should be equally stingy with FPGA resources, allowing for a smaller array. That, in turn, will allow more resources to be dedicated to internal memory and specialized I/O.

Back in the late '70's, the 6502's were fast enough to "blow the doors off" the competing CPU's, with the possible exception of the IIL 8X300, which was a lot more trouble and expense, and was fast only because, like the GI PIC16 and the 804x and 805x it used a Harvard architecture but much faster than its MOS competitors.

RE





List of 75 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Page Mode, anyone?            01/01/70 00:00      
   benefits            01/01/70 00:00      
   got curious, could'nt find "ultra" just            01/01/70 00:00      
      Ulta            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'd love to see more "ultra"            01/01/70 00:00      
            I found it quick enough            01/01/70 00:00      
      Link to manual            01/01/70 00:00      
   high - Ok, ultra - no way            01/01/70 00:00      
      why ultra            01/01/70 00:00      
         page mode            01/01/70 00:00      
      Apparently there were grand plans...            01/01/70 00:00      
         There are some advantages            01/01/70 00:00      
            they don't fill all amateur needs            01/01/70 00:00      
               not all old app's are hobby jobs            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Name me one case, outside amateurs where            01/01/70 00:00      
                     inhouse special devices            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Here's one, but where there's one ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               One advantage...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Commercial DIP applications            01/01/70 00:00      
            at the other end of the scale            01/01/70 00:00      
            Comments on DS89C4x0            01/01/70 00:00      
               Sasha's comments.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Architecture            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Architecture ... there's the rub            01/01/70 00:00      
                        hardware library            01/01/70 00:00      
                           hardware library?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Hardware Library!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 How could I have missed that ???            01/01/70 00:00      
   In fact you could            01/01/70 00:00      
   Hazards in pipelined processors            01/01/70 00:00      
   Page Mode - DS'4x0            01/01/70 00:00      
      Say ... are you the same Phil Gallo who            01/01/70 00:00      
         No .. Not the same fellow            01/01/70 00:00      
            Sorry Mr. Fagin            01/01/70 00:00      
            ... it was a typergeographical error ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Roll your own..... maybe            01/01/70 00:00      
                  But.....            01/01/70 00:00      
                     an old reference            01/01/70 00:00      
               DS'420 Pipeline            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I'd figured that as well            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I am pretty sure if you look            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Be specific, please            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Oh I am sorry            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Let's not start a jihad here.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              there is documentation of a pipeline in            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 to pipeline or not to pipeline            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    not really            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 maybe so, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    when is a question a conclusion?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       What's a DS4?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          oops, got caouht up in the hype a DS3xx            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Pipeline Ref - Electronic Design            01/01/70 00:00      
                     hummm....            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, it's a 4-stage pipeline ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Huh?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Huh?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           and it's somewhat dated            01/01/70 00:00      
                              the common approach            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Where is "the bible" published?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    UART modes 2 and 3 "the bible" chapter 3            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    The Bible            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Yes, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Intel Documentation            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Thanks for coming up with that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Erik's link            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          go to links            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Thanks! That's not what I expected            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Identical ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Philips and Intel            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   License History            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      foundation document            01/01/70 00:00      
   branch prediction            01/01/70 00:00      
      Maybe, as an intellectual exercise, but            01/01/70 00:00      
         ah well.....            01/01/70 00:00      
            it's clearly worth doing            01/01/70 00:00      

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