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???
02/07/06 15:14
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#109413 - I'd buy Keil if I had to make 2 units
Responding to: ???'s previous message
OK, try to think 10k rather than 1M, gets a bit more realistic picture.

I'd buy professional tools if I had to make 2 units of a significant size. If that, and other projects, was not enough to carry the load, I would decline. This, of course, apply to "other" processors, I am fully tooled for the '51.

I would gladly make a small, say 1k, app with "no" tools, but the bigger the project, the more important the tools become.

I have seen more junk made with the excuse "we could not afford the tools" then for any other reason.

mainly to Jan: I was pulled, kicking and screaming, to C about 12 years ago and still go against the stream and code assembly when needed. I strongly recommend, you get a book and start adding C to your warchest, even if you may be restricted to SDCC. After a period of grumbling and complaining "I can do that better in assembler" you will start learning to like it. If your volumes are not huge saving a few hours by using C can easily pay for the extra $2 you may need for sufficient memory. In my young and inexperienced days I attacked everything to achieve optimum, but have since learned a

very important engineering formula:
 [the cost of engineering hours saved]/[no of units made] = ["free" additional component spending].
The corrolary: if [cost of engineering hours saved] > [cost of tool] buy tool.

Can you imagine the attitude towards engineering hours when 600.000 units are made. I got enormous praise for saving $0.87 by a memory trick (still pure C code). On the other hand, in a case where the anticipated production was 10, it was "do whatever to cut engineering cost, do not worry about parts".

Erik

PS the above does NOT state that a few can not make a workable unit without a tool budget. Just that too many try.



List of 66 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
GNU gcc compiler for 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
   No!            01/01/70 00:00      
      sdcc            01/01/70 00:00      
      And never will be            01/01/70 00:00      
         Hmm well            01/01/70 00:00      
            Stack Size            01/01/70 00:00      
         Is it so because..            01/01/70 00:00      
            processors supported by gcc            01/01/70 00:00      
            The reason...            01/01/70 00:00      
               bigstack            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Probably not            01/01/70 00:00      
               Bigger Stack            01/01/70 00:00      
                  how much is enough?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Who?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        but who???            01/01/70 00:00      
                        SDCC            01/01/70 00:00      
                           No.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           only preprocessor            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Successful?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        routinely            01/01/70 00:00      
                           The AVR tinys have no ram            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Not me            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Wheel re-invention            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I suppose            01/01/70 00:00      
                           sdcc - where to start            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Sorry            01/01/70 00:00      
                        No stack required            01/01/70 00:00      
                           reentrancy            01/01/70 00:00      
                        The right tool for the job            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE: The right tool for the job            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Good point            01/01/70 00:00      
                              ... but who cares, anyway?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Sad, but true!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    not convincing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                        have been designed to fit C            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          it IS relevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             not rteally            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                choices            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   ...and Pascal            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   If you are planning to make 1.000.000 un            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Choices            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   naah...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Yup            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         oh $8            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            I don't buy that one            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               you have to work with what you get            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Even assembler needs justification            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      you DID use the %!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         as to above            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            tradeoffs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               I'd buy Keil if I had to make 2 units            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  my original point was...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Dan, you missed a detail :)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         In good company            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            deadlines            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      assumptions            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         could not say it better            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Nothing new there, then!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             oh well, more words            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Normal            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   have a look            01/01/70 00:00      
                              yes, but most want their tool            01/01/70 00:00      
            I dont know where to reply!            01/01/70 00:00      
   as so often before            01/01/70 00:00      
      Seen it so many times            01/01/70 00:00      

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