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???
12/11/08 20:57
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#160872 - Todays LEDs turn on and off very fast
Responding to: ???'s previous message
... but why is the retinal persistance, on which multiplexing relies, so short with LED's when it is essentially 33 ms in a TV? After all, the TV displays one pixel at a time with a 33 ms frame rate.

Can you elucidate? Is there a reason? How does ambient lighting affect this?

Yes, it does, but, in TV, it's quite short relative to the retinal persistence. That's why some people are acutely aware of the inherent "flicker" while most don't see it at all. This was particularly painful when video games that used interlace became popular. I'd guess Erik Malund knows more than most of us about this effect with LED's.

I'm trying to get Erik Malund to tell us what he knows about LED's of this type. After all, he works with this technology all the time.

The type of LED's with which I originally worked took microseconds, or at least the major part of a microsecond to "light up" and didn't "light up" fully for several microseconds. Further, their behavior was not in any sense linear with current or voltage


Todays LEDs turn on and off very fast, my shortest PWM pulse is ~30uS
Because of that and the Human retina you need to do EVERYTHING affecting light on/off in less that 8ms for everybody, 10ms for most and 15ms for a few or you will have complaints about flicker.
if you do not have the full on/off cyscle done in 8ms some will se flicker.
How does ambient lighting affect this ambient light does affect this becuse ir requires you to vary the on time.

Erik

an anecdote:
when I designed my first color sign I said to myself "TV refreshes at 50Hz (60 in the US), let me make that my goal, the result was HORRIBLE flicker.



List of 60 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Help Req:Working of 8-bit SIPO Shift Register in LED Display            01/01/70 00:00      
   Look at some datasheets?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sequence            01/01/70 00:00      
   Could you be more specific?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Got U!            01/01/70 00:00      
         New thread            01/01/70 00:00      
            OK...but            01/01/70 00:00      
               You just proved the point!            01/01/70 00:00      
               Here is a possible solution            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Rash assumption?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     you can use MPUs those has built-in flash            01/01/70 00:00      
                  EPROM with AT89S52            01/01/70 00:00      
               permanent?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  No....            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Non-Volatile Storage            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Still a Problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Obviously            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Design work before chip selection            01/01/70 00:00      
         What about LED drive current?            01/01/70 00:00      
            if you plan to multiplex ....            01/01/70 00:00      
               I know you're well versed in this context ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Phosphor persistence?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     That's in Erik's primary domain            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Todays LEDs turn on and off very fast            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Intermodulation            01/01/70 00:00      
                              you make some additional points, but            01/01/70 00:00      
                           But what about TV?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              persistence of the tube, I guess            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Blind test?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Problematic test strategy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       double blind ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Blind tests, revisited            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             I have no such problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                For flimmer test too?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   done inside and outside            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Interlace            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Not Really            01/01/70 00:00      
               Maybe skip intensity and on-the-fly updates            01/01/70 00:00      
                  They haven not been discussed ... yet            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Forget All...........            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Don't you need a refresh memory?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Table Lookup is Used            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Need buffering            01/01/70 00:00      
                        that is ridiculous            01/01/70 00:00      
                           character generation            01/01/70 00:00      
                              i think you got me...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 No tricks involved            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Here's one way ... but you'll have to code it yourself            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    thanks...i'll try it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       how to reset HEF4094            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          difference between "strobe" and "output enable" pins?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Only be serially writing zeros to it...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          How are you using the '4094?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Not so simple for a newbie...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                perhaps you're right, Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Thanks, but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Did you even read the prior posts?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         multiple parallel outputs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            actually, yes!            01/01/70 00:00      
   Telephonic discussion            01/01/70 00:00      

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