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???
02/14/07 17:35
Modified:
  02/14/07 17:50

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#132959 - Some ideas...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
One reason a fast power-on is needed is to guarantee that the oscillator gets the needed kick to start. There are oscillators not showing enough start-up reserve, which you can block with a very slowly power-on.

One reason to have a stable reset signal from Vcc=0V on is, that micros start several internal routines at power-on, which eventually are invoked at different levels of supply voltage. Start-up of oscillator is one such mechanism. The idea of the reset signal is, to start certain internal "affairs" at the same moment and by this to synchronize them.

Because of that, a sufficiently fast power-up is needed (to allow the oscillator to start), a proper reset signal is needed from Vcc=0V on (to keep all internal affairs quiet), and a suffieciently long reset active time is needed (to guarantee a synchronisation of certain internal affairs).

When flash micros came into play, which can be programmed by the invoke of internal ISP routines (another sort of internal affair) an improper reset not only makes your product a toy, but can also result in a damage of flash code memory content...
Especially here another feature of reset circuitry is needed, brown-out detection.

What are these internal affairs?
I don't exactly know. But I remember, that certain micros had internal charge pumps to bring the substrate on a certain potential. Also, don't forget that certain micros are not statically working but need a minimum clock frequency. This should provide ample food for thought...

Kai

List of 83 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Comments about AT89S8253            01/01/70 00:00      
   are you surprised, it's Atmel            01/01/70 00:00      
      are you surprised, it's Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
   Not neccessarily bugs...            01/01/70 00:00      
      AT89S8253 ALE pulses            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes, a bit imprecise            01/01/70 00:00      
            And Vcc rise time...            01/01/70 00:00      
               What kind of "external reset"?            01/01/70 00:00      
      not that fast, Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not so fast, Jan...            01/01/70 00:00      
            speaking from experience...            01/01/70 00:00      
               ...as engineer?            01/01/70 00:00      
               make that darn datasheet 5000 pages            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I'm not sure what you mean, Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That's what I meant            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Serial hung.            01/01/70 00:00      
            migration            01/01/70 00:00      
               Please quote carefully...            01/01/70 00:00      
         is it possible            01/01/70 00:00      
            I don't think so...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Any reset            01/01/70 00:00      
      I've wondered about this ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Indeed!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Perhaps they're part of the problem ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Do you think...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  That's not clear to me.            01/01/70 00:00      
               not here            01/01/70 00:00      
                  These are all COTS SMPS\'            01/01/70 00:00      
                     startup            01/01/70 00:00      
            Is it not instead a problem of letting reset go be            01/01/70 00:00      
               staring problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                  have you never stared at a problem :)            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Ah, so you meant....            01/01/70 00:00      
      What resets?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Any reset!            01/01/70 00:00      
            I got what you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
               Circuit proposed            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Interesting!            01/01/70 00:00      
         SMPS and LC filter            01/01/70 00:00      
            Switchers & low ESR            01/01/70 00:00      
               you missed the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What 100nF?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Rob is right            01/01/70 00:00      
               Ah            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Erik, you do use switchers frequently...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     nope, all I know is that they work and work and wo            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                           so ... Kai ... how would YOU build a power switch?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              there is no difference between "no power" and "in            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 There is a difference ... no power means no clock            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    ah, an investigatory measure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       The Max1232 gets pretty confused ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          what decoupling do you have across the supervisor            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             This was a Philips ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Too fast?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   The risetime isn\'t all that fast.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          More details, please?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             So far, it's just the reset that's been broken            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Throw away the DS1232!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I\'ll have to send for a couple ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I've seen that one and it did not work            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Especially difficult to design            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Datasheets            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      610msec reset active time of MAX1232 not enough?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Let's get to the bottom of it ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Some ideas...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               each flash/eeprom HAS a charge pump...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Exactly, Jan!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Yes, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Why there are reset issues            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     so you're saying I should pull down ALE and nPSEN            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Real Reset            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     be careful...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     never heard of that one, can you elaborate            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Elaborations on Reset            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Mayabe that's worth some study ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Which chip are you using?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 I can try several, but for now, Philips            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   DS1232?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      it means Dallas Semiconductor            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   re 1232            01/01/70 00:00      
   Sorry.            01/01/70 00:00      

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