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???
02/12/07 01:53
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#132573 - That's not clear to me.
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I' concerned, of course, that so many people have encountered reset problems with this (805x) series of MCU's, while they seldom aries in others. I always view positive-going reset and iterrupts with suspicion. I think it's a stupid, Stupid, STUPID thing to do under any circumstances. Nevertheless, we're stuck with it.

Reset IC's became popular at about the same time as SMPS availability and pricing became attractive, and it's no coincidence that FLASH memory became popular at about the same time. I suspect there's a link there. People began using SMPS' and found that their FLASH memory was becoming corrupted. They blamed the MCU reset. They tried fixing it with Reset chips. That satisfied some people. It's continued to be a problem, though. At about the same time, small MCU-based systems using those weak-kneed "wall-wart" supplies became popular, too. I suspect that, since this problem apparently persists, there's a linkage there that hasn't been adequately explored.

I'd be interested to know what the statistical distribution of power supply type and output strength is across the spectrum of applications that experience RESET difficulties.

I'd also be interested to know what the distribution of unmangageable RESET problems with MCU's equipped with RESET IC's but using wall-wart or SMPS for Vcc happens to be.

I do think that there's an inherent design flaw in the 805x series, which affects the way in which Vcc, the crystal oscillator, and reset interact.

I think that if one switched a solid Vcc to the MCU in, say a microsecond or less, counted the oscillator cycles externally and generated a 25-cycle-long reset pulse from that, it might shed some light. The key is having a dead-quiet Vcc supply capable of charging the, say, 10000 microfarads of capacitance on a large board and still producing a 1 uS rise time on Vcc to the MCU. The key, is in the "dead-quiet" rather than in the strength of the Vcc supply, however. I doubt this will ever be achieved with any low-frequency (below 5 MHz) SMPS without extensive output filtering.

RE




List of 83 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Comments about AT89S8253            01/01/70 00:00      
   are you surprised, it's Atmel            01/01/70 00:00      
      are you surprised, it's Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
   Not neccessarily bugs...            01/01/70 00:00      
      AT89S8253 ALE pulses            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes, a bit imprecise            01/01/70 00:00      
            And Vcc rise time...            01/01/70 00:00      
               What kind of "external reset"?            01/01/70 00:00      
      not that fast, Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not so fast, Jan...            01/01/70 00:00      
            speaking from experience...            01/01/70 00:00      
               ...as engineer?            01/01/70 00:00      
               make that darn datasheet 5000 pages            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I'm not sure what you mean, Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That's what I meant            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Serial hung.            01/01/70 00:00      
            migration            01/01/70 00:00      
               Please quote carefully...            01/01/70 00:00      
         is it possible            01/01/70 00:00      
            I don't think so...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Any reset            01/01/70 00:00      
      I've wondered about this ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Indeed!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Perhaps they're part of the problem ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Do you think...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  That's not clear to me.            01/01/70 00:00      
               not here            01/01/70 00:00      
                  These are all COTS SMPS\'            01/01/70 00:00      
                     startup            01/01/70 00:00      
            Is it not instead a problem of letting reset go be            01/01/70 00:00      
               staring problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                  have you never stared at a problem :)            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Ah, so you meant....            01/01/70 00:00      
      What resets?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Any reset!            01/01/70 00:00      
            I got what you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
               Circuit proposed            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Interesting!            01/01/70 00:00      
         SMPS and LC filter            01/01/70 00:00      
            Switchers & low ESR            01/01/70 00:00      
               you missed the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What 100nF?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Rob is right            01/01/70 00:00      
               Ah            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Erik, you do use switchers frequently...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     nope, all I know is that they work and work and wo            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                           so ... Kai ... how would YOU build a power switch?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              there is no difference between "no power" and "in            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 There is a difference ... no power means no clock            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    ah, an investigatory measure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       The Max1232 gets pretty confused ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          what decoupling do you have across the supervisor            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             This was a Philips ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Too fast?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   The risetime isn\'t all that fast.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          More details, please?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             So far, it's just the reset that's been broken            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Throw away the DS1232!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I\'ll have to send for a couple ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I've seen that one and it did not work            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Especially difficult to design            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Datasheets            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      610msec reset active time of MAX1232 not enough?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Let's get to the bottom of it ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Some ideas...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               each flash/eeprom HAS a charge pump...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Exactly, Jan!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Yes, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Why there are reset issues            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     so you're saying I should pull down ALE and nPSEN            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Real Reset            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     be careful...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     never heard of that one, can you elaborate            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Elaborations on Reset            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Mayabe that's worth some study ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Which chip are you using?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 I can try several, but for now, Philips            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   DS1232?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      it means Dallas Semiconductor            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   re 1232            01/01/70 00:00      
   Sorry.            01/01/70 00:00      

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