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???
01/08/10 15:41
Modified:
  01/08/10 16:11

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#172263 - a bit harsh, and not entirely correct, either
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Jez Smith said:
My sense of curiosity was too much. I just had to reverse-engineer the 8052. It's a good feeling to now understand how the 8052 works.

Rubbish.. your schematic is almost entirely useless and as far as understanding how the processor works it is completely useless.

A, Its you touting for business and
B, Having developed a VHDL version of the 8052 myself, I hope that this shows what is wrong with the idea that you can show how a complex system such as the 8052 'works' by showing a gate level schematic.

Also I cannot help noticing that your schematic contains combinatorial feedback loops which you would never find in any real world design.

The latches that were used in place of clocked registers in early, but very functional, designs such as the 6800 and 6502 were used because (A) they require no setup time, and (B) they are essentially ONE gate rather than six. Since the 805x core was designed at about the same time as these guys were extremely popular, I'd not be surprised to find many of them in the "real McCoy."

Also if I want to see any of my designs at gate level I simply plug the VHDL into my synthesis tool and it will show me a gate level schematic if I want which might be useful to resolve timing issues but that's about it.

Sorry but this has really annoyed me.


You once mentioned your 805x implementation as one that "almost" worked, still having problems with interrupts, or some such. There are lots of "almost" complete 805x's out there, none of them very fast, or very complete, and if this guy has a version that works as well as yours, I'd not be jumping on him because he used a few latches.

VHDL is a great way of getting from a set of known behaviors to an implementable design, but it seldom produces a result that is as efficient as a hand-tweaked gate-level schematic. Unfortunately, the tools we have to use today translate that hand-tweaked gate-level schematic into an inefficient VHDL or, in some cases, Verilog, equivalent that is just a inefficient as the one synthesized from VHDL or Verilog source.

I wouldn't give up on HDL's to create designs from precise spec's, but that's because it imposes structure, not because it's the most efficient implementation. It is, however, probably the most effective use of man-hours, but not of silicon.


RE

Edited: I mistakenly said hold time, where I meant setup time in the italicized item above.

BTW, I don't feel that this presentation makes it easy, in any sense, to understand the workings of the 805x core.

List of 16 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Gate-level schematic for an 8052 Microcontroller            01/01/70 00:00      
   Er.. no            01/01/70 00:00      
      A bit harsh - but I'd tend to agree!            01/01/70 00:00      
      a bit harsh, and not entirely correct, either            01/01/70 00:00      
         Indeed...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Nice link, by the way...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Well...you see Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
         as for my 8052 core            01/01/70 00:00      
            These things happen            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, I can see it being a bit annoying            01/01/70 00:00      
         Is there a way to edit my initial post?            01/01/70 00:00      
   mr Boole does it far better            01/01/70 00:00      
   Contradiction?            01/01/70 00:00      
   History about my 8052 schematics            01/01/70 00:00      
      It might amuse you to know ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         But...            01/01/70 00:00      

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