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09/20/06 07:19
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 		 #124646 - I am talking about the rusty nail
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Kai,

I am talking about the rusty nail and a newbie's first construction, while you use the original cable and design with '51s profesionally.

Kai Klaas said:
No, the reset line is logic high all the time!


No, it's not with the "rusty nail" or with the "buffered cable, but 74VHC is replaced for HC/HCT/LS" and RC reset under powerup/powerdown.
Btw., the AT89S52 datasheet said:
Power-off sequence (if needed):
Set XTAL1 to “L” (if a crystal is not used).
Set RST to “L”.
Turn VCC power off.


OK, I believe this reads: "turn off RST after programming, but when VCC falls below xxxV, turn on RST as usually."

Kai said:
And the oscillator starts quite standardly when powering-on the micro.

Although I haven't seen a '51 that would fail to oscillate, I believe quite a percentage of the failures is simply for no oscillator clock: miswired crystal, faulty crystal, bad capacitors etc.etc. Unfortunately, the clock must be ticking too fast to be generated from PC, so I know no failsafe remedy for this, but we might suggest some sort of a test (suitable high-pass filter+detector, and a DMM, to be measured on ALE - comments?).


Kai said:
There's no problem with the ISP programming of AT89S52 at all!


Well, obviously, there is, otherwise we would have no newbies questions... :-) I want to get rid of these consistently.

JW

List of 232 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
SPI ISP issues            01/01/70 00:00      
   SPI ISP issues - part 2            01/01/70 00:00      
      SPI ISP issues - part 3            01/01/70 00:00      
   plural            01/01/70 00:00      
      Fora is certainly correct            01/01/70 00:00      
         no, it's not ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            great post!            01/01/70 00:00      
   I think the biggest problem is with the AT            01/01/70 00:00      
      maybe            01/01/70 00:00      
         It's not necessarily the product ... it's the docs            01/01/70 00:00      
            OK let them be so            01/01/70 00:00      
               It's true, they shouldn't be used by anyone.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What would you suggest to use?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Anything else at all would be fine ... even a PIC            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Whaaaat???            01/01/70 00:00      
                           ANYTHING but Atmel products!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Come on, Richard...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 well, I, for one, agree with Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Bullshit! Stating such is entirely ridiculous!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       how can a FACT be \\\'ridiculous\\\"?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It's ridiculous, because you deduce...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             single event?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Yes, and hundreds of events with Philips,            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   a VERY high up 'idiot'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Well, mine was a long series of events            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   there may be hope, sorry Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      It will be a WARM December day in Moscow            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         maybe someone found out            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            The penalty isn't severe enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               blame the rest of the bunch            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Well, as I said, it's like U.S.-made cars            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 If they'll do it to US, they'll do it to YOU!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Do you really think that others are better??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       all comapanies have things to blame them for            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Indeed!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             a maxim about maxim            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Once upon a time ... there were second sources ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I don't love Philips, either            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I don't 'love' any company, but I 'love' to work w            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Once upon a time there were FAE's who knew things.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                once upon a time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Yes, it\'s like the grocery store            01/01/70 00:00      
      The biggest problem is            01/01/70 00:00      
         do it - under my name            01/01/70 00:00      
            All right, here is it...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Kai .. we're not getting a bit sensitive here ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  noooooo................ hmm, maybe a bit...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Why does this come up so frequently?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Because there is so much trash in the www!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Maybe we can provide a local "fix" for that            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Great idea, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 the other side of the coin            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    A fool who trusts on phantasy programmers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Kai the issue is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Little Joe            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             did you not know            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             especially since he\'s been deceased for some time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Lots of those "fantasy" programmers are for sale            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          What a trash!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Oddly enough, similar circuits work for JTAG            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Driving cables is nasty!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   framkly, I wish eval-board makers would heed this            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Have you tested series termination?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         would be great, but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Kai, I think that would be a WONDERFUL addition!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Well, what I am thinking ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Yeah, but what's that to do with ISP?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       grits, yes, oatmeal, no            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Some of 'em will look, read, and do SOME work            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             and the winner is            01/01/70 00:00      
               An alternative to Atmels ISP CABLE            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Profiting from highest noise margins            01/01/70 00:00      
                  comparator            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Not so well suited...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I don't understand.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Check the spec-sheets            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I am sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              cables et al            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Cables...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    software            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       ps            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       To be honest...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Atmel software... a piece of @%^&            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             it's for amateurs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                ??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Not at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                dear amateurs, be realistic            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Erik, did you mean...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Why, oh, why            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         why, oh why            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            not the issue            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                but you ARE professional!!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   now, I'm going to upset Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      ICE?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      No success stories            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Grrrr! Well, maybe not this time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             it makes you wonder, doesn't it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  ATMEL cable with the HC            01/01/70 00:00      
                     another idea            01/01/70 00:00      
                        please, pretty please            01/01/70 00:00      
                           there is no magic            01/01/70 00:00      
                              you said it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 you got me wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    do not blame me for what YOU said :)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       teaching is hard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          good analogy, the question is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             when I turned my back...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                you forgot            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   filter            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      nope            01/01/70 00:00      
                        upside-down            01/01/70 00:00      
                           and the 3rd reader            01/01/70 00:00      
                              he already did            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 a good one            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    tell it beforehand            01/01/70 00:00      
                              The newbie SHALL try to build his stuff, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 allow a reply of \"you stupid idiot\" to anyone            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Will not do the trick, unfortunately            01/01/70 00:00      
                           decoupling the LPT lines?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Low state noise margin...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 and with a Schottky?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    No, I wouldn't recommend this            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       www.reichelt.de            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Ok, to be more precisely...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             can you please draw it down?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Replace the 74VHC244 in the original circuit            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    How would a germanium work?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Could work!            01/01/70 00:00      
               thanks, Kai!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Schottky diodes            01/01/70 00:00      
                     to Schottky or not to Schottky :-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Yes, but we must assume a minimum standard...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           shopping            01/01/70 00:00      
                              My point is..            01/01/70 00:00      
                        You can use an array            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Your search - 74S1023 - did not match any document            01/01/70 00:00      
                              SN74S1053            01/01/70 00:00      
                              OOPS! it is 74S1053 ... sorry!            01/01/70 00:00      
   the issues            01/01/70 00:00      
   a most telling thread            01/01/70 00:00      
      The root problem is that the first thing one needs            01/01/70 00:00      
   "dedicated programmer"            01/01/70 00:00      
      what's difficult to understand ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Ok, how do you propose they program and erase the            01/01/70 00:00      
            I would not be quite so sure about that            01/01/70 00:00      
            Keep in mind that this is for newbies ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               but they still have to build it            01/01/70 00:00      
      Only because it looks simple does not mean...            01/01/70 00:00      
         he's desperate            01/01/70 00:00      
         there are lots of circuits published like this!            01/01/70 00:00      
            I used to have memory mapped I/O in virtual            01/01/70 00:00      
               I wouldn't say that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  that threy learn to drive with a stick shift            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Once again, you are exaggerating ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        the point I\'m trying to make (and believe that I            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Yes, but in 101 you've got to use a '51 or '31            01/01/70 00:00      
                              nonono            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Perhaps you\'re right, in this case ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I don't think so            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Ah but..            01/01/70 00:00      
                              halelujah!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           the problem with RD2 is...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              what cost the most            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 cost            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    patience is what it takes            01/01/70 00:00      
         let's sort it out            01/01/70 00:00      
   Richard, you aregue things that, while valuable ,            01/01/70 00:00      
   Its not the cables if you ask me.            01/01/70 00:00      
      an interesting thought            01/01/70 00:00      
         It's probably not JUST this part ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      not the cable alone            01/01/70 00:00      
         it will, but            01/01/70 00:00      
      It simply has to do with the numbers            01/01/70 00:00      
         maybe not quite ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            I was assuming...            01/01/70 00:00      
               a case like that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I have            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Perhaps it's that the approach is wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I guess I have seen those ... ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   fresh thoughts            01/01/70 00:00      
      ???????????????            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'm puzzled, too, Jan            01/01/70 00:00      
            2 different things            01/01/70 00:00      
               au contraire            01/01/70 00:00      
                  from the ISP point of view...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     if you have "no reset and oscillator"            01/01/70 00:00      
                        sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Ok \"in-situ programming\" works but that is not ISP            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Does this scheme actually work reliably?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Guiness book?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    This all goes back to the "AT" in the part number            01/01/70 00:00      
               Nothing magic with reset and oscillator            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I am talking about the rusty nail            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, here you are right!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        just helping            01/01/70 00:00      
                           200            01/01/70 00:00      
                           not quite, but I like the idea            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              ... and that's why I advocate for the 8032 version            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Stuff it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    This will soon be moot            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Central Europe?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Mistake...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       you think so, I do not            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Better hope...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             no love there            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Nothing is perfect...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       HUH            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          waitaminute            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             same desert            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                it appears so            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 male cow manure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Eprom programmers are cheap and simple            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Cheaper than a $25 Atmel cable ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Yes, and widely applicable, too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             beware            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                That's the usual line from an Asian vendor in U.S.            01/01/70 00:00      
   fresh experience            01/01/70 00:00      
      I am not going to vote 'off topic' but            01/01/70 00:00      
         I am still just thinking aloud...            01/01/70 00:00      
   just helping            01/01/70 00:00      
   222 posts WOW!!            01/01/70 00:00      
      EEEK! Why would you get that close?            01/01/70 00:00      
         post number 224 and counting            01/01/70 00:00      
            Well, I\'m a dog person ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               226            01/01/70 00:00      
                  tie a brick around his neck            01/01/70 00:00      
                  %$#@! it happened again!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Programming Dogs            01/01/70 00:00      
                        230 tried it            01/01/70 00:00      

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